Feb. 3, 2004 RO Chemistry Chatroom Session Notes

Allan (Tue 7:17pm 24.64.223.204):"Just Logged On."

Bill (Tue 7:18pm 65.29.54.55):"Just Logged On."

Wes (Tue 7:19pm 64.61.211.24):"Just Logged On."

Wes (Tue 7:19pm 64.61.211.24):"Hello class"

Allan (Tue 7:19pm 24.64.223.204):"good evening"

Wes (Tue 7:20pm 64.61.211.24):"I will wait a couple minutes before beginning"

Wes (Tue 7:21pm 64.61.211.24):"Everything OK with Bill and Allan?"

Allan (Tue 7:21pm 24.64.223.204):"feeling a little inadequate in the chemistry department, but working on it"

Wes (Tue 7:22pm 64.61.211.24):"From the homework I can say that you are not alone, but that is one reason you are here"

Bill (Tue 7:23pm 65.29.54.55):"Yes, everything is OK, was wondering about the class discussion board though..."

Allan (Tue 7:23pm 24.64.223.204):"exactly, it's been twenty years since I spent quality time with a chemistry textbook"

Wes (Tue 7:23pm 64.61.211.24):"It would have been nice to foresee how high school chemistry might impact our understanding of our future job"

Allan (Tue 7:24pm 24.64.223.204):"who knew?"

Wes (Tue 7:24pm 64.61.211.24):"Bill, what about the board?"

Bill (Tue 7:24pm 65.29.54.55):"It appears to be a open public board"

Allan (Tue 7:25pm 24.64.223.204):"I had the same problem, there are TWO boards"

Wes (Tue 7:25pm 64.61.211.24):"You should connect using the page, http://www.diwater.net/Reverse_Osmosis_Chemistry_Course_Support_Page.htm"

Allan (Tue 7:26pm 24.64.223.204):"I have been accessing the one via the support page"

Wes (Tue 7:26pm 64.61.211.24):"then the boards are exclusive to this class"

Bill (Tue 7:26pm 65.29.54.55):"me too"

Wes (Tue 7:27pm 64.61.211.24):"Is there a problem?"

Bill (Tue 7:27pm 65.29.54.55):"yes"

Bill (Tue 7:27pm 65.29.54.55):"the links must be bad"

Wes (Tue 7:28pm 64.61.211.24):"So far I have only seen our students posting to our discussion board"

Wes (Tue 7:28pm 64.61.211.24):"What do you see on your board?"

Allan (Tue 7:29pm 24.64.223.204):"There are eight posts on the communication board and seven on the class tech discussion board"

Wes (Tue 7:30pm 64.61.211.24):"Bill?"

bill (Tue 7:30pm 65.29.54.55):"Just Logged On."

bill (Tue 7:30pm 65.29.54.55):"[root@ns2 wwwboard]# wwwboard.html [root@ns2 wwwboard]# cat wwwboard.htm"

bill (Tue 7:30pm 65.29.54.55):"this is the board the link brings you to"

Steve (Tue 7:30pm 208.38.88.71):"Just Logged On."

Wes (Tue 7:31pm 64.61.211.24):"Hi Steve"

Wes (Tue 7:31pm 64.61.211.24):"Bill, what do you see?"

bill (Tue 7:31pm 65.29.54.55):"Just Logged On."

Steve (Tue 7:31pm 208.38.88.71):"Sorry I'm late"

bill (Tue 7:31pm 65.29.54.55):"http://www.diwater.net/ro_chemistry_class_homework.htm"

bill (Tue 7:31pm 65.29.54.55):"This is the page with the link"

Allan (Tue 7:32pm 24.64.223.204):"wrong board"

Wes (Tue 7:32pm 64.61.211.24):"That should be linked to "Assignments""

Wes (Tue 7:33pm 64.61.211.24):"You say you are going there from the Discussion Board link?"

bill (Tue 7:33pm 65.29.54.55):"Yes"

Allan (Tue 7:33pm 24.64.223.204):"He got that link from the assignments page"

bill (Tue 7:35pm 65.29.54.55):"It was from the chemistry class homework page, link to discussion board"

Wes (Tue 7:35pm 64.61.211.24):"Strange. Can you get to the Discussion Board from the Outline for the RO Chemistry Course?"

Paul (Tue 7:36pm 67.24.181.15):"Just Logged On."

bill (Tue 7:36pm 65.29.54.55):"Let me try again. The link from the homework page is bad. The page is titled Assignments, does this help"

Wes (Tue 7:36pm 64.61.211.24):"Hi Paul"

Paul (Tue 7:37pm 67.24.181.15):"hello, I've been here for a bit and then saw that I needed to log in at the bottom of the page"

Wes (Tue 7:37pm 64.61.211.24):"Bill, I will look into it and let you know. For now, I want to make sure you have some way of getting to the Discussion Board"

Allan (Tue 7:38pm 24.64.223.204):"the support page link to the discussion board works for me"

bill (Tue 7:38pm 65.29.54.55):"OK, no problem I'll try access from the link you gave earlier"

Wes (Tue 7:38pm 64.61.211.24):"Let us begin. Tonight's discussion format: Assignments, then Class format, Projects, Schedule, Next assignments. First, any burning issues anyone needs to express?"

Paul (Tue 7:39pm 67.24.181.15):"not yet"

bill (Tue 7:39pm 65.29.54.55):"already have expressed mine"

Allan (Tue 7:39pm 24.64.223.204):"n"

Wes (Tue 7:40pm 64.61.211.24):"One quick aside: Frank Slejko of Tall Oaks Publishing and I have been discussing current trends in water treatment training. It would be helpful to us (your answers will be shared with Frank) if you could answer the question, Will you be less likely to participate in an Ultrapure Expo or WaterTech workshop over the next 3 years because of your involvement in these SCTC courses?"

Allan (Tue 7:40pm 24.64.223.204):"I am not sure what an Ultrapure Expo or WaterTech workshop is"

bill (Tue 7:40pm 65.29.54.55):"no"

Allan (Tue 7:41pm 24.64.223.204):"any of them Canadian??"

Paul (Tue 7:41pm 67.24.181.15):"no"

Wes (Tue 7:42pm 64.61.211.24):"Frank puts on these workshops and promotes them in Ultrapure Water magazine. They are not in Canada, but one is in Portland"

Wes (Tue 7:42pm 64.61.211.24):"Thank you. Homework: I had some server problems about a week ago & may not have received some of your homework so am extending the deadline to this Friday. I know that I have Kreg's, Kevin's, Allan's, Bill's, Ed's, Steve's, Paul's, and Morgan's but I am missing the others. The rest of you should re-email your homework to me by Friday. As a reminder, homework is normally due prior to the next chatroom session. Of the material I received, I have asked most of you to expand on one or more of your answers and re-submit. Issues or concerns with the homework?"

Allan (Tue 7:42pm 24.64.223.204):"close enough, how "medical" would you consider them? as opposed to industrial"

Wes (Tue 7:43pm 64.61.211.24):"Allan, The workshops involve water treatment so may be worth your while. I will keep you informed of future workshops."

Allan (Tue 7:43pm 24.64.223.204):"Great"

Wes (Tue 7:44pm 64.61.211.24):"Any issues or concerns about the homework?"

bill (Tue 7:44pm 65.29.54.55):"One question, would you expect us to use outside reference material to answer chapter questions?"

Steve (Tue 7:45pm 208.38.88.71):"The workshops, it sure would not prevent me from going to Ultrapure water show!"

Wes (Tue 7:45pm 64.61.211.24):"You may find it necessary, although I generally try to relate the questions in some manner to practice questions already discussed."

bill (Tue 7:46pm 65.29.54.55):"Yes, would you expect us to use outside references to answer chapter questions"

bill (Tue 7:47pm 65.29.54.55):"OK"

Wes (Tue 7:47pm 64.61.211.24):"If outside material will increase the depth of your answer, I am all for it."

Wes (Tue 7:48pm 64.61.211.24):"It is true that some of the questions deal with issues not directly covered in the material. Not always, but often this is intentional. The intent is to get you to further think about or investigate the issue. I realize this may create additional stress, but I do believe the extra effort required by these questions will increase your understanding and retention. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much stress did you experience with these questions?"

Paul (Tue 7:50pm 67.24.181.15):"3, but when I see how i did my stress could change"

bill (Tue 7:50pm 65.29.54.55):"It was more stressful watching the Superbowl halftime show"

Allan (Tue 7:50pm 24.64.223.204):"7.5, as I mentioned earlier, it's been a long time since I had to recite this kind of stuff"

Steve (Tue 7:51pm 208.38.88.71):"I did consult outside info "

Wes (Tue 7:51pm 64.61.211.24):"any stress Steve?"

Steve (Tue 7:52pm 208.38.88.71):"Yes, but I can't put a number on it yet"

Wes (Tue 7:52pm 64.61.211.24):"If you are finding the stress to be de-motivating, you should bounce concerns off your partner and/or post questions on the Discusion Board for the other students to respond. This also helps the students who respond to your questions."

Steve (Tue 7:52pm 208.38.88.71):"Stresss is not always bad"

Allan (Tue 7:52pm 24.64.223.204):"I expect the level to go down when I am in full swing here"

Wes (Tue 7:52pm 64.61.211.24):"I don't think the class is yet using the Discussion Board to its fullest potential. Please allow your fellow students to show their expertise and answer your questions/concerns. Let me emphasize though: DO NOT POST FINAL ANSWERS for material that is to be submitted or for the final exam! This defeats the purpose and might be construed as cheating. Deal with the issues/method of solving the questions."

bill (Tue 7:53pm 65.29.54.55):"The discussion board was stressful"

Wes (Tue 7:54pm 64.61.211.24):"I will be posting additional technical questions. Remember that I will be reviewing your responses to see how well you are using the Board. Please note that your postings may not show up in your browser until you hit your "refresh" command."

Wes (Tue 7:54pm 64.61.211.24):"I will make sure the Discussion Board works for everyone."

Wes (Tue 7:55pm 64.61.211.24):"Working example: Two new elements have recently been identified, 113 Ununtrium (Uut) and 115 Ununpentium (Uup). Attempt to make one technical comment about them or the issue. Try it now?"

Wes (Tue 7:56pm 64.61.211.24):"too stressful?"

Allan (Tue 7:56pm 24.64.223.204):"would the Unumpentium have simiilar qualities as Phosphorous"

Allan (Tue 7:57pm 24.64.223.204):"being as it would fall under the fifth column"

Wes (Tue 7:57pm 64.61.211.24):"A question would be a valid posting, to which others could respond"

Allan (Tue 7:58pm 24.64.223.204):"but that is what you had in mind??"

Wes (Tue 7:59pm 64.61.211.24):"If you give an explanation of your questions (5th column) then I think it is legitimate"

Allan (Tue 7:59pm 24.64.223.204):"OK"

Wes (Tue 7:59pm 64.61.211.24):"By the way, their characteristics would not be similar to those of fifth column elements because of their size."

bill (Tue 7:59pm 65.29.54.55):"OK"

Wes (Tue 8:00pm 64.61.211.24):"You might also say something about...how the given number is the element's Atomic Number and...identifies the material by the number of its protons...that this gives the material unique characteristics...that it had to be created atificially in a nuclear reaction...that it is probably unstable because it is not found naturally...it is an extremely large atom... similar materials have atomic mass values about 20 times the size of carbon...that the atomic mass is the sum of the element's neutrons and protons...it is probably insoluble because of its large size...that it would be well rejected by an RO membrane because of its size...and because of its insolubility...that CEA's Periodic Tables are not up to date (only go to 110)"

Wes (Tue 8:01pm 64.61.211.24):"Our ability to retain knowledge is related to how well we link it with our existing knowledge. Questions?"

Allan (Tue 8:01pm 24.64.223.204):"mine only went to 109"

Wes (Tue 8:02pm 64.61.211.24):"Questions?"

Allan (Tue 8:02pm 24.64.223.204):"n"

Paul (Tue 8:03pm 67.24.181.15):"no"

bill (Tue 8:03pm 65.29.54.55):"no"

Wes (Tue 8:03pm 64.61.211.24):"As the instructor, I am experiencing a stress level of about 3 - 4, mostly because I cannot read your faces as I could in a classroom. I am not used to having to rely on remote methods of judging how well the teaching methods are working. I have to rely on your homework and written responses, so please let me know if you are having a problem with something. Concerning the assigned material to date, with what concepts/issues could you use more assistance/practice?"

Allan (Tue 8:04pm 24.64.223.204):"just making a list: newer periodic table and a remedial chemistry reference book...."

Wes (Tue 8:05pm 64.61.211.24):"Allan I am sure your Periodic Table will be fine for the water elements with which we will be dealing."

Steve (Tue 8:06pm 208.38.88.71):"I need a periodic table I can reffernce while working, reading"

Steve (Tue 8:06pm 208.38.88.71):"flipping pages is stressful"

bill (Tue 8:07pm 65.29.54.55):"It appears very few pages in the book are assigned. I assume most of the work is to be put into our projects?"

Wes (Tue 8:08pm 64.61.211.24):"Bill, the intent of the course is to balance the learning burden for the 2-credit course between the book, CDs, internet and projects."

Wes (Tue 8:08pm 64.61.211.24):"To help me judge how much I am demanding of you for the material that has been assigned to date, how many total hours have you spent reading, working with the CD, and answering questions?"

Paul (Tue 8:08pm 67.24.181.15):"At his point I am reawakening the basics I learning 25+ years ago."

Paul (Tue 8:08pm 67.24.181.15):"its a slow process"

Allan (Tue 8:09pm 24.64.223.204):"three hours, but I have been away alot, and have planned all along to spend more time than that"

bill (Tue 8:10pm 65.29.54.55):"About 3 hours for the first assignment"

Paul (Tue 8:10pm 67.24.181.15):"3 to 4 hours"

Steve (Tue 8:10pm 208.38.88.71):"only because of my new job, I'm doing chemistry again. Otherwise, it would be tough."

Steve (Tue 8:11pm 208.38.88.71):"About 4-5 hours, but I'm along on the CD more"

Steve (Tue 8:11pm 208.38.88.71):"Are there going to be notes for this session?\"

Wes (Tue 8:11pm 64.61.211.24):"I will be keeping track. I want the time commitment to be typical for a 2-credit course."

Steve (Tue 8:11pm 208.38.88.71):"Are there going to be notes for this session?"

Wes (Tue 8:12pm 64.61.211.24):"Steve, there is now a file being created that I will post tomorrow from this session."

Wes (Tue 8:13pm 64.61.211.24):"Projects: I have posted additional project ideas to the Discussion Board, and a Report Format as well. After the last session, I realized that some of your project ideas may be more appropriate for future courses (if you are planning to continue with the curriculum). This is not to discourage, just to help you manage your valuable ideas. I would like your project idea/concept e-mailed to me by the next session. Questions?"

Allan (Tue 8:14pm 24.64.223.204):"I appreciated the new topic ideas, my only issue is finding something I can work with as far as materials go."

Wes (Tue 8:15pm 64.61.211.24):"There is no reason to make it hard. Simple household chemical reactions may suffice."

Wes (Tue 8:16pm 64.61.211.24):"Any more questions about the projects?"

Allan (Tue 8:17pm 24.64.223.204):"n"

bill (Tue 8:17pm 65.29.54.55):"I will need to look at the discussion board, no question right now"

Steve (Tue 8:17pm 208.38.88.71):"not yet"

Paul (Tue 8:17pm 67.24.181.15):"so at this point you are looking more for chemistry topices that are not Necessarily directly realted to ro?"

Wes (Tue 8:18pm 64.61.211.24):"They can be related to issues that we are covering that do not directly involve an RO."

Wes (Tue 8:19pm 64.61.211.24):"alkalinity, chemical reactions, concentrations, suspended solids vs dissolved solids, etc"

Wes (Tue 8:20pm 64.61.211.24):"Schedule: Please note that the class calendar has been modified to be consistent with having chatroom sessions and assignments due-dates on Tuesdays. I have a concern about the timing of the course. Do you think having 3 weeks between chatroom sessions is too short, too long, or just right?"

bill (Tue 8:20pm 65.29.54.55):"3 weeks seems good to me"

Allan (Tue 8:20pm 24.64.223.204):"I wanted to thank you for changing the night to Tuesday, and three weeks seems adequate"

Steve (Tue 8:21pm 208.38.88.71):"do I have to have a Hypothesis?"

Wes (Tue 8:21pm 64.61.211.24):"Steve, you have to have some concept you are testing."

Steve (Tue 8:21pm 208.38.88.71):"For the lab"

Wes (Tue 8:22pm 64.61.211.24):"Simply relate your experiment to what you would have predicted the outcome to be based on the theory involved."

Steve (Tue 8:22pm 208.38.88.71):"Darn Computer delays. I have some materials I would like to disolve"

Wes (Tue 8:23pm 64.61.211.24):"The Summer session will probably be compressed somewhat, although there will likely be fewer chatroom sessions."

Allan (Tue 8:23pm 24.64.223.204):"how much chemistry??? LOL"

Wes (Tue 8:24pm 64.61.211.24):"LOL?"

Allan (Tue 8:24pm 24.64.223.204):"sorry, Lots Of Laughing"

Wes (Tue 8:25pm 64.61.211.24):"Allan, I hope the course improves your confidence in water chemistry."

Wes (Tue 8:25pm 64.61.211.24):"Next Assignments: Read pp. 28-36 in text. Answer end-of-chapter Q 15, 16, 17, and 19. Do CD topics through Alkalinity. Any remaining questions or issues?"

Allan (Tue 8:26pm 24.64.223.204):"I am sure it will, still getting rid of the intimidation bug"

bill (Tue 8:26pm 65.29.54.55):"no"

Paul (Tue 8:26pm 67.24.181.15):"no"

Steve (Tue 8:26pm 208.38.88.71):"If I'm predicting, isn't that hypothesis"

Wes (Tue 8:27pm 64.61.211.24):"yes it is"

Wes (Tue 8:27pm 64.61.211.24):"Steve/Allan: any more questions?"

Allan (Tue 8:28pm 24.64.223.204):"no"

Steve (Tue 8:28pm 208.38.88.71):"What is the meaning of life? sorry just kidding"

Wes (Tue 8:28pm 64.61.211.24):"Next chatroom session: Tuesday, Feb. 24 See ya!"

Steve (Tue 8:28pm 208.38.88.71):"no"

bill (Tue 8:29pm 65.29.54.55):"Logged Off"

Allan (Tue 8:29pm 24.64.223.204):"Ciao for now"

Paul (Tue 8:29pm 67.24.181.15):"Logged Off"

Allan (Tue 8:29pm 24.64.223.204):"Logged Off"

Wes (Tue 8:29pm 64.61.211.24):"Logged Off"

Steve (Tue 8:29pm 208.38.88.71):"Thanks! Bye"

Steve (Tue 8:30pm 208.38.88.71):"Logged Off"

Ed Czaja (Tue 8:31pm 65.56.19.143):"Just Logged On."

Ed Czaja (Tue 8:38pm 65.56.19.143):"is there anyone out there"

Ed Czaja (Tue 8:54pm 65.56.19.143):"Just Logged On."

Ed Czaja (Tue 8:54pm 65.56.19.143):"have a good night"

Ed Czaja (Tue 8:54pm 65.56.19.143):"Logged Off"